Hello all
I was supposed to do this earlier but I was out of LA. About a week ago an individual came by my lab asking us to sign a card for the formation of a post-doc union at UCLA under the UAW which to my understanding is the auto workers union. My encounter with him was weird.
First he knew all the names of the postdocs in my lab.
Second he never introduced himself. He only passed a sign up card to join the list of postdocs who desire a union in this campus. He provided no leaflets or any other information regarding the benefits and / or responsibilities of union members. He just wanted me and the other postdocs in my lab to sign the card.
I am bringing this to your attention in case this happens to you. One of the postdocs in my lab accidentally signed the card because she was confused. This is by no means a support or rejection of any unionization efforts.
Thanks
Dimitrios Vatakis
Re: Union rep visits
February 13, 2006 - 8:44pm — ajayHey folks,
Having heard of a few more such experiences, the SoPS exec. board recently met with the Grad Division to discuss this matter. A summary of the meeting and links to both for- and against- sites that discuss the pros and cons of signing these cards can be found in the report by Graham.
http://www.postdoc.ucla.edu/modules/news/article.php?storyid=139
I hope some of that information helps your think about this issue. Please feel free to pen your thoughts here since the forum is a good place for unoffical debate.
Best,
Ajay
Re: Union rep visits
February 13, 2006 - 5:24pm — Anonymous (not verified)Some guy named 'James' just stopped by at our office and asked for me and the one other postdoc we have here, by name. they must have obtained a list from somewhere i guess.
Anyway, i asked for time to think about it and for more information and was directed to this website: www.prouaw.org
I haven't signed because i really don't know what the story is.
Carissa
Re: Union rep visits
February 23, 2006 - 6:44pm — tdanielsI too had a weird experience with one of these union reps, although at the time I did not realize who he was. I found him wandering through the lab. When I asked him if I could help him he said he was looking for a specific post doc, but he would not say who he is was and what it was regarding. He returned like 3 times never giving more information. This was in the Factor building and we have had some burgleries around us so we were concerned by this guy's vagueness. We found out later (once he found who he was looking for) that he was indeed a union rep wanting her to sign the card. It was just a weird situation.
I am having trouble with this whole union thing. UCLA can't take sides and it seems like whether we sign the card or not we will have to pay a fee (if they get enough signatures), right? So, is our only hope that no one signs these things? Or is there a benefit to the union that I am not seeing? I personally negotiated my salary with my PI before I came here, so I don't want this right taken away.
I would love to hear the thoughts of others.
link update
June 28, 2006 - 1:21am — ajayThe above link should be the following on the upgraded website: http://www.postdoc.ucla.edu/node/139
Cheers!
Hey, I just saw a posting
July 25, 2006 - 3:24pm — annamHey,
I just saw a posting notice for the UAW sent around via email (including one from Kyle). What does this mean, implications for us, what course of action should we take if we support or oppose any unionization by the UAW?
I know SOPS can't have an official opinion but the post-docs here need to get informed and discuss what can possibly happen.
Anna
I also had a weird encounter
August 1, 2006 - 11:46am — HildeS (not verified)I also had a weird encounter with theses union reps. The first time, they came two: one person I knew by face, since she works in a lab I have visited on campus, and then this guy, that I cannot remember if he introduced himself or not. They came into the lab, while I was working, and I really did not have time to talk with them. They asked specifically for me, by name, and wanted me to sign this card. They talked loosely about what it was, only because I asked a lot of questions, and since I did not have time to talk (I was working!) they said they would come back. He came back maybe a week or so later, again wanting me to sign the card. I asked more questions, asked for more information, he reffered me to a web-site (forgot it by now). But what made me make up my mind was that when I asked to get the card and think about it, and he would not give it to me; it was like I was hardly alowed to look at the card, only sign it. Anyway, I felt unsure what the whole thing was about and didn't feel like I had enough information to make the decision, so I didn't sign, and he never came back after that. I got the impression that they tried to get my signature by surprise attack, but it didin't quite work...
Can we postdocs "unite" to
August 1, 2006 - 12:24pm — Anonymous Coward (not verified)Can we postdocs "unite" to create a class-action case against UAW? They seem to have taken/solicited signatures without sufficient information. Is this legal? Are the strategies they use legal?
yes we can !!! at UCSF we
August 1, 2006 - 6:37pm — wiebkeyes we can !!! at UCSF we have started a partition collecting signatures of Postdocs who do not want to be unionized by the PRO/UAW
If we can collect 50% of the Postdoc signatures, we have a counter case and can stop unionization by PRO/UAW.
If you are willing to sign or collect some signatures I will be happy to send you the form..
please e-mail me to
wiebke [dot] herzog [at] ucsf [dot] edu
I had a second union rep
August 1, 2006 - 12:30pm — EricaI had a second union rep come into the lab last week, following 2 visits from one earlier in the year. Similar to Dimitios's experiences, he asked for me by name but he did not introduce himself. He asked me to sign a card for union membership, but was not prepared to give me any information on why I should do this. The lack of information *from them*, and the continual visits to the lab bother me. More preferable would be for them to provide information for informed decision making and allow me to consider it in my own time.
We had two visits from an
August 1, 2006 - 12:38pm — Peter Stoilov (not verified)We had two visits from an union representative in February or March. He had a not very up to date list of the postdocs. I don't recal his name and I am not sure he gave it to me. He refused to give me any information about the union, their goals and plans except for a web page (http://www.prouaw.org/) that has almost no info. The rep insisted on not leaving the card to me to look at and sign it later and said that there is no mailing address to which the cards can be mailed. This all looked a bit fishy to me, so a told him that I will think about it. A week later he showed again and I refused to sign the card. At that time I already knew that they are part of UAW and that it will cost us to have them on campus no matter if we are union members or not. The whole thing is ridiculous and I am surprised that there are people who signed these cards.
I had a fairly unpleasant
August 1, 2006 - 12:53pm — BenI had a fairly unpleasant experience with a person coming to my office asking me to sign a card without really explaining to me what it was. I told him that now was not a good time but he persisted and set a time when he would come back...which he did, tracking me down to my lab. When I told him I didn't want to sign the card he asked me why and was again quite pushy telling me that I had a responsibility to other post-docs not just myself. When I asked to keep the card he refused. Also when he first came to my office I asked to take some contact details so I could think about it and mail the card to him if I decided to sign it, he refused that also without a good explanation.
I had a union rep call me on
August 1, 2006 - 1:33pm — annamI had a union rep call me on our lab manager's phone. I think that is the phone number that is listed in the UCLA directory but isn't actually my contact #. She was actually quite respectful. She starting asking me if I would be interested in the union and when I told her that I was at work and this wasn't a good time, I think she apologized and said goodbye. No one contacted me again (surprisingly). I didn't really have a chance to ask any questions as I was tying up someone else's phone.
Same story: except my name
August 1, 2006 - 1:34pm — ChippieSame story: except my name isn’t listed on the UCLA campus directory, yet he still asked for me by name – and I strongly suspect he got my name from UCLA as I have a long (17 letters in total) and unusual name, which UCLA records have spelt slightly wrong and he had the same incorrect spelling. He came round twice (first time I was busy); when I asked to keep the card he said no as it was a legal document, and also refused to give me his details (e-mail) when I asked. I said he came across as poorly organized and a bit dodgy, so would not even consider signing the card. Then he left.
Inform UC about your
August 1, 2006 - 1:47pm — wiebkeInform UC about your encounter with UAW!
Please send a short letter today!! to your UC office of labor/employee relations, describing what time of the day, where and with which arguments UAW representatives were asking you to sign a card. or what your encounter with PRO/UAW was like.
your University needs to know NOW, that is before thursday! ans it needs to be with your signature on Paper, otherwise it just stays as "rumors" in the net
thanks
Who excactly are we supposed
August 1, 2006 - 2:15pm — HildeWho excactly are we supposed to send this letter to ? I am HHMI/MIMG....
If you wish to withdraw a
August 1, 2006 - 2:47pm — GrahamIf you wish to withdraw a singed card please contact Kyle Cunningham for details on where to send the letter and what it should contain.
kcunning [at] gdnet [dot] ucla [dot] edu
I just posted new
August 1, 2006 - 6:28pm — wiebkeI just posted new instructions, since the deadline has moved, we need your story (and myeb the ones of you collegues) by tomorrow 1pm!!!!
Adress the letter to PERB, please e-mail it and/or fax it to:
concernedpostdocs [at] gmail [dot] com and/or badams [at] diabetes [dot] ucsf [dot] edu and/or mmoye [at] hansonbridgett [dot] com or fax attn: M. Moye 415-541-9366.
thanks
Please write your story! It
August 1, 2006 - 6:26pm — wiebkePlease write your story!
It takes only 5 minutes but can save you $500!
We just found out this is LAST and ONLY chance to present your case to PERB, the board deciding on whether the current drive to unionize is legal. Even if you already sent a letter to RESCIND your signature, we still need YOUR STORY.
Please write a letter WHEN you were approached by UAW representatives and whether you signed and ANYTHING you remember: who you talked to, what they said, their explanation of the card, any promises they made, the time of day, etc. Also state whether you would still sign the card now that you know the full meaning of the card.
We do need that letter by tomorrow (Wednesday, August 2) afternoon at 1 p.m. You can email your story to concernedpostdocs [at] gmail [dot] com and/or badams [at] diabetes [dot] ucsf [dot] edu and/or mmoye [at] hansonbridgett [dot] com or
fax attn: M. Moye 415-541-9366.
One or two paragraphs are all we need.
Address the letter to PERB and date it and give your name. We need as many of these as possible to present the case that people were misinformed. If this is successful, we will save the %1.15 percent of your gross income the union dues will.
QUESTIONS: Email concernedpostdocs [at] gmail [dot] com or badams [at] diabetes [dot] ucsf [dot] edu
It takes only 5 minutes!
As I see it, it's not just
August 2, 2006 - 8:29am — Anonymous (not verified)As I see it, it's not just the ~$500/year they will take, but also your negotiating power/opportunity with your advisor- the union will do all salary/benefit negotiations on your behalf, regardless of whether you are a member or not. Therefore, all postdocs will be paid the same (probably on a scale based on postdoctoral year), regardless of publication history, reputation, pedigree, etc. Sounds a little socialistic to me.
Do we really want this here? What's the incentive to excel in a unionized workforce? Do we really want to be represented by people with high-school educations (autoworkers)? What do they really know about postdocs and our career needs/goals? Are we really considered labor?- we have BAs, BSs, MDs and PhDs and therefore are by definition professionals, not labor.
I currently get paid about twice the minimum because I have worked my butt off and built a career. Personally I don't need the union taking that away from me.
If you feel like doing
August 2, 2006 - 3:56pm — wiebkeIf you feel like doing something, please join the petition against the
PRO/UAW and coolect signatures agaist being unionized by the the UAW!
all information can be found on the this website on the left under petition drive:
http://www.antiprouaw.org/
thanks
I've had similar
August 1, 2006 - 7:16pm — Dan (not verified)I've had similar experiences. I've now had visits from two people, each of whom only provided a first name, if anything. They only had a card that they wanted me to sign, which they would not let me keep for whatever reason (this could be legit--maybe they need to know that you personally signed it). They both seemed surprised when I asked for more information and wanted me to sign the card in the meantime (are you kidding me?) I explained to the second guy that my time as a postdoc at UCLA was almost up and therefore I didn't think it appropriate to count my vote. He tried to make some argument about this, but I didn't pay much attention as a patient showed up and the union guy went away.
I wish I had taken more notes about it, as I found the whole procedure to be a bit obnoxious.
Hi All, After reading the
August 18, 2006 - 4:17pm — james (not verified)Hi All,
After reading the above comments I'm a bit surprised because I had a different experience with the organizers when they came to visit me. It was clear that they got my info from the administrative staff in my deptartment and I don't really see anything wrong in that since after all what they're supposed to do is to contact the postdocs, right? I signed the card based on the info they gave me: that the card authorizes the union, on my behalf, to be my representative for collective bargaining. In general I found the organizers willing to answer my questions and able to do so in a clear way.
I was a T.A. as a grad student here at ucla and was unionized under the T.A. union. My experience was good then, so I'm not opposed to the union per se (disclaimer). I've been fortunate enough to have fair supervisors while at UCLA (regarding pay: there are pay scales also, right? so there's still room for personal negotiation between the supervisor and the postdoc...) but I imagine that other people may not be so lucky; in such situations to have a collective agreement protecting the weakest part might be benefitial.
Cheers!
Hey, After all the early
September 5, 2006 - 4:15pm — annamHey,
After all the early August deadlines, does anyone know what happened? Are we unionizing? Are they still counting?
An interesting article was
September 6, 2006 - 2:06pm — KyleAn interesting article was written last week about the status of the UAW petition. It can be viewed online at: http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issues/articles/2006_09_01/postdoc_unionization_drive_reaches_a_climax_in_california/(parent)/68.
We have received very little information in the last couple of weeks at the campus level. PERB has the cards and will be conducting the count, but noone knows exactly when those results will be available. The best I can advise at this time is ... stay tuned.
Just to warn everybody that
September 7, 2006 - 5:46pm — LauraJust to warn everybody that they are not giving up easily. I had a visit this afternoon from another of their reps. I (politely) told her that I am not signing anything, particularly without some written information. One of my colleagues asked if he could think about it and mail the card back at a later date if he decided to sign. Apparently this is not an option because "they don't like to waste money on paper".....
The more I see of this the more dodgy I think it is!
Heads up to all post docs.
January 9, 2007 - 4:55pm — dvatakisHeads up to all post docs. The UAW is out again for signatures!!!!!
"A lost battle is a battle one thinks one has lost. " Jean-Paul Sartre
Just wanted to add another
January 18, 2007 - 1:22pm — bethdanielsJust wanted to add another voice to this topic. The approach that some union reps use might be off-putting, but it's worth listening to what they have to say. In my experience with the TA union, reps are volunteers who take time out of their busy lives to advocate on behalf of a group (i.e., us). Due to their volunteer status, I've found that there's a real range of skills in terms of being personable and informative. But the bottom line is that their intentions are to improve the working conditions of a particular group. And they donate their time and effort for free to this end.
I received a notice
July 10, 2008 - 4:09pm — Anonymous postdoc (not verified)I received a notice yesterday that the UAW has once again filed a petition to represent postdocs in the UC system and have received over 50% consent. I know that neither I nor the other post-docs in my lab consented to this. Is this really something that the post-docs in the UC system want? Their efforts failed about 2 years ago... and now it looks like it may succeed. Is anybody else concerned about this?
Where is the link that Ajay
July 13, 2008 - 3:44pm — anonymous (not verified)Where is the link that Ajay gave to an official discussion of this matter, at the bottom of this thread?. The link apears to be dead. That link would be interesting for us to read.
I would think that there should be a large open town hall style meeting for all postdocs to have the details explained and to discuss the pros and cons of this idea, before anyone is asked to sign anything.
See post on June 28th, 2006
July 19, 2008 - 8:57am — ajaySee post on June 28th, 2006 way at the bottom for updated link.
"I refuse to believe that everybody refuses to believe the truth" - Lisa Simpson
This is enjoyable. Thank you
August 5, 2008 - 9:58am — Fernando (not verified)This is enjoyable. Thank you very much guys.
Regards,
Fernando
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